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Perfection is a very vague concept. If it means that a perfect person does not do evil and does not experience suffering, then from the point of view of the Jewish and Christian faith, everything was so before the fall of man. It was the fall that distorted God's created human nature and made it ” imperfect.” If a person could not commit the fall, he would not have free will, and without it, he would hardly be perfect.
This question does not contain a logical trap, so all conversations on this topic are superfluous. This syllogism in the Middle Ages was solved as follows:
God is all-powerful.
God's plan is unknown to us, His will is inscrutable.
Therefore, He simply wanted to create an imperfect person, for what purpose – it is not known.
There is no need to talk about the perfection of God himself. It (or its absence) simply has nothing to do with this syllogism.
I don't pretend to be the truth and I'm not an expert. Man was created just perfect by design. Adam and Eve had everything, and they could have lived happily ever after. The tempter spoiled them. And that's what they all traded for the unfortunate apple. Sin did not make men perfect, but man was created perfect. The present imperfection is manifested in the fact that we are constantly rushing between the serpent's offerings and the divine garden. Whether to do this or that. How much a particular person is close to God or the Devil depends on what choice they made. And the degree of its imperfection also depends on this. From the point of view of Christianity, the one who follows the path to God is more perfect. This is no longer a matter of design, but rather of choice and will.�
�I may well be wrong, tk is not an expert as I wrote above.
Purely mathematically, the creation of an imperfect person by a perfect God is quite possible:
Mathematicians say that very many operations with infinity and finite numbers – give one or another infinity:
Infinity + or – any finite number = infinity
Infinity * or / by any finite number = infinity
So, the creation of a finite man by a Perfect God can be depicted as subtracting a finite number from infinity.
Everything that surrounds us: the Great Cosmos, our Planet, “nature and man himself” is the creation of the Creator or the Supreme Cosmic Mind. The whole World created by Him is “harmonious and perfect, because the Creator”is perfection. Perfection can only create perfection. Therefore, ” man ” also, as a part of the Creator, as His likeness and creation, must be perfect. Perfection is the goal of a person's life (incarnation). To become perfect as a Creator, a person”needs to change himself beyond recognition, discarding” everything material, everything that clogs the consciousness of a person who carries the makings of becoming perfect.
The Creator gave man Rights, including the Right of Free Will and the Right to Create himself and the surrounding space. This gives a person the opportunity to independently go their own, unique way, make their own choices in life. But at the same time, remember that a person, as part of the Creator, must strive for Light, for perfection.
A person who has “from the Creator” such gifts asThe right to Create�and�Right�Free�A person who does not have the ability to properly “use these gifts”due to a lack of knowledge about the structure of the Universe, causes irreparable harm not only to space, but also to himself.A person needs to learn true knowledge about the world order during his life.
Using the Right of Free Will, “a person should always” remember the responsibility and reasonableness of decisions made, control their words, actions, and, most importantly, track their thoughts and mental images that materialize, create our reality.
After all, according to the Canon of cause and effect, what “you sow, you reap” or “as we think, so we live.” That is, the “result” of using the Right of Free Will is the person himself and his ” life.” The world that we have today is the result or consequence of our thoughts, our actions, our creation.
If the person accepts responsibility for own�thoughts, words,�actions, trying in their lives to change themselves, to grow spiritually,�eradicating�sins and vices, the person makes the choice to side�light�perfection.�
And if a person lives according to the principles: “take everything you can from life”, “we live once”, “without understanding responsibility for their thoughts and deeds, then such a person slides down to the state of an animal-man, who has in the first place not spiritual values,” but only material goods, ” comfort, prosperity.Such a person does not strive for light, for spiritual perfection. And in this case, too, the “choice” of the person himself is”to make imperfect the perfect” creation of the Creator.
In my opinion, the question is not relevant.
If you take it for granted that it exists, it doesn't matter if it's perfect or not.
It's like parents — no matter what they are. They did their job — there are no options.
Even if they are not perfect, what does it change? The fact has come true.
What is there to discuss?
Although, I am haunted by vague doubts about the presence of God.
Create such a thing and watch it calmly…..
Do not consider yourself wiser than the Almighty and descend to his criticism. To try to understand the plans of the Almighty and admire his wisdom is the task of any person.
The question is not entirely correct. God is transcendent, and to Him, strictly speaking, the concept of perfection (like our other concepts) does not apply. The question is worth asking in a different way: “What do ideas about the perfection of God mean?” What message and idea do they carry? To whom are the biblical texts originally addressed, which carry ideas about the perfection of God? And here, when we use biblical studies to find answers to these questions, we can see that the idea of the perfection of God and creation is a call to the recipients of biblical stories – a call not to evaluate prospects based only on the current situation. Scripture does not speak of the actual perfection of God, nor of the actual perfection of man – it says that man's existence is conditioned by God and that man is not alone in the face of trials.
There is a proverb: a fool is not shown half a job.�
Perfect is not a person whose perfection is given to him from the outside in a ready-made form. Perfection must be ITS OWN, free, growing from within, otherwise it will not be perfect. God, having planned to create a perfect man, decided to make him a partner in his own perfection. Adam in Paradise, in order to be perfect, had to follow the commandment FREELY – that was his part of the job. Our situation is more complicated, but in principle similar, we also have our own part of the work*. To become perfect, we must participate in it, do it together with God. And, of course, we will see the result, but not here and not now. And what is visible now is the very half-works that you can not show to a fool :))
Well, I do not know what did not satisfy the author of the question in the above answers, that he asked it again, apparently there is nothing in them that he would like to hear.
I can't talk about all the gods and all the systems of religious worldview, but in the Orthodox worldview-the Lord is perfect, because he is the Creator of this whole world. Not just a human being.
Human imperfection is also a controversial issue, since we do not know how man was created initially, we are not familiar with the original version. The version we know of arose from the premature introduction of what was preserved in ancient Jewish mythology as “the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”-whatever it was. According to Orthodox thinkers, the fruit of this tree should be accepted by a person later, in the process of growing the original Person from an Image to a Likeness (whatever this in turn means). Man has disrupted, so to speak, the necessary technological process of increasing in perfection, and we have what we have now. The creature is short-lived, mortal, sick, and generally quite fragile, and also very talented in destroying both itself and the created world of lust, given to us as a gift.�
Since this collapse, this anthropological catastrophe, is the product of Man's own free will – which is a necessary part of Human perfection-it is somewhat incorrect to blame God for this. Actually, a creature without the right to choose-in itself obviously cannot be perfect. Hence the logical conclusion that it was the perfect God who created just such a being, with the right of free choice, which unfortunately made the wrong choice, and as a result became as imperfect as we know it.
This is the worldview of Orthodoxy. It can be divided or not divided. Faith is a voluntary matter.
In my understanding, perfection is a state of absolute balance, born out of chaos. Whether this term applies at all to the Creator is anyone's guess. The path to the perfection of the soul, in particular, is indicated through the victory of the 7 main sins (someone else added sadness) – for this purpose, life in the sublunary world is given.
It seems to me that a person's freedom of choice was given initially – to stumble and learn independently. Was there a period of “childhood” to Apple meal �- honestly relate to him slightly skeptical; well here is an analogy growing up, when carefree existence under parental guardianship over time and increasing cognition of the world rushes ability called “doubt” or the tree of knowledge, and a rethinking of Genesis is never easy (aka the “fall of man”, “the violation of the commandments”, �- parental guidance given for the sole purpose of concerns, but doubt, doubt..). It is easier to fit the abyss of questions about being, and why it is so, to the known world order – this approach is wrong, or the ability to draw analogies is given to us as a tool that facilitates perception, including on this topic-I hope we will find out later 🙂 (subjectively inclined to the latter)
All these Deniskin stories about gardens of paradise and hell with boiling cauldrons were created by people who thought about what is the highest bliss and what is the worst; besides, they were witnesses of various persecutions and tortures arranged by particularly self-confident individuals-hence all these colorful descriptions. Physical suffering is finite, but with an immortal soul, it won't work.
We will all come to the end with what we have made up for ourselves with countless choices during the course of life – someone will come to it with peace, having reached this perfection and meeting death as an inevitable, but conceived from above – and therefore a necessary step, someone-without reaching it, with complete devastation in the soul, and for him the fear of this step is endless-perfection, Whether it is eternal – opinions differ, Catholics give sinners a chance in purgatory, Orthodox-reap the fruits of your labors, the chance of repentance is given only in the material world (and a prayer for the repose of loving people).
Thank you for your question! God's perfection cannot be measured by the perfection or imperfection of man's creation. Is the universe created by God perfect? We cannot fully comprehend God's purpose in creating man. Why in general is the only animal on earth endowed with intelligence? Of course, a person is not perfect: he cannot live without outer clothing in his sphere of habitation, he will burn in the sun, freeze from the cold, he cannot eat raw meat and fish, etc. But! This was the creator's plan! In his perfect picture of the world, it was necessary to fill the space with just such a “character” corresponding to his plans. In my opinion, everything created by God is perfect in its diversity and complexity of their interaction. Everything is interconnected, everything affects each other. The grandeur, scale, and beauty of the divine plan is breathtaking. Another thing is that if you do not believe in God, but believe, for example, in the big bang theory (and even know what happened before it), string theory, etc., then, of course, you can build an evidence base for the imperfection of God, through the imperfection of man.
Personally, I think that if God wanted to, he would create a perfect robot and, like a true programmer, give it an ideal code without bugs. Maybe our human imperfection is a gift from above? Why, then, did the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil flourish in paradise, if not for man to know the whole essence, all aspects of knowledge? Yes, these arguments are chaotic and sometimes sinful, but I think that God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, moreover, he created us to think and have a choice, this is not a mistake or a “puncture” – this is our chance to prove first of all to ourselves that our perfection should be deserved, not given. We must create ourselves, because the Lord (the Supreme Being/nature, as to whom) gave us his part, creating ” in his own image and likeness.” And, yes, as it may sound – but we are-for some part, we are gods. And we can change everything if we want to.
God is perfect, as his works show. Adam he created are perfect that is He could live without committing sin, for this he had to be obedient. Adam was in paradise conditions and there was no need to break God's prohibition. But he loved the Girl more than God and listened to her voice. So I lost perfection. Adam's flesh began to resist God. Therefore, we descendants of Adam are born sinful: we resist God, bear the sad consequences of our disobedience. But God promises to restore what has been lost to people, and for this people must recognize the sovereignty of God and become obedient to him.
The question itself is not correct.�
Or even, rather, it belongs to the category of trick questions
And any answer to it will be just a personal delusion.�
What makes you think that a person is IMPERFECT ?�
Who determined that a person is IMPERFECT ? Муд Wise philosophers? �Smart books? �
Or are we to believe that man is IMPERFECT, “for so it is written, “” for so it is written?”
What do WE KNOW about ourselves, about a person, to say that a person is IMPERFECT ?�
Okay, I won't bore you..�
We do not know anything about a person about his capabilities, about the potential of both body and soul!!!
And even if there are some unexpected manifestations of unusual abilities, “even here, a large half of humanity perceives it, at best,” as another illusion or a new idea for MARVEL.”
Just think for a minute.�
What if man is the most perfect being (in the image and likeness)?�
What if we live in the 21st century using our own capabilities (at least the brain) ” only “by 0 integers, shish tenths to the minus 100,000 power?�
What if the caterpillar turning into a butterfly is not a quirk of nature, but a HINT (do not take it literally)) ) for an evolutionary transformation ?�
Well, for those who are too lazy or do not have enough time to allocate a minute.))�
Man has not been studied and is not known, and therefore it is more than unreasonable to speak of the imperfection of him and especially of his creator.�
The funny thing is that in the distant BC times this was understood))�
And the descendants were told to “KNOW YOURSELF”
“KNOW YOURSELF AND YOU WILL KNOW THE WHOLE WORLD”
To answer this question, it is necessary to clearly and unambiguously establish the criteria and boundaries of the “perfection” that the author has in mind. Such an abstract question cannot have a concrete answer.
Logically, these things are not connected. A perfect Being can create both something perfect and something imperfect, depending on His desire.
God did not create anyone or anything. He showed up to everyone! Trillions of individual consciousnesses. And in every mind he knows: “I am!”
The very fact of this manifestation is infinite perfection. In each individual consciousness, God sees himself, because there is nothing else. Where is the man? There is no human being. And there is a consciousness that sees its own manifestations. And in these manifestations there are all pairs of opposites: good and evil, perfection and imperfection, light and darkness, me and not me…. And this is also perfection!
God is imperfect, if only because, according to the scriptures, God is good. He is omnipresent and omnipotent. However, if there is evil in the world, it means that God is not omnipresent. And if God is not omnipresent, then neither is He omnipotent.
Regarding your question. Let us assume that God is still perfect, but is it not within the right of the perfect to create the imperfect according to His own design?
I like the example with the rusty nail. Let's say a nail has been stuck in a barn wall for 50 years. The shed was dismantled, the nail was driven and thrown out, and it rusted in the ground for another 30 years. So this rusty bent nail is perfect, given the conditions. Under the circumstances, it's as perfect as a new nail in a box. It's the same with people. All are perfect, considering all the circumstances leading up to the moment.
But even if we leave out this idea, God is still perfect, because he is the absolute-the sum of all the pros and cons.
God is naturally perfect, both in the Christian sense and in general as the Supreme Absolute. This is clear from the very definition of God in St. John the Baptist. St. John of Damascus and Philo of Alexandria.
Human imperfection exists not because something went wrong with God, but because it makes sense for a person to become like God. Man is the bearer of the image of God, he is in a state of assimilation. If a person does not want to do this, then he is waiting for the state of “gehena”, from the Hebrew it means “disposal”.
perfection is a narrow human parameter.
Osho troll his teachers with this question: “if God is perfect, then he has finished his development and does not change, then he is dead” )))
god and man are developing living substances, just by the first one you can mean a lot of things – both space itself and the cosmos, and the community of non-material collective intelligence …
a person is perfect, within the framework of reasonable behavior, and not everyone's behavior is adequate.
so to judge the imperfection, too, as it is not comme il faut.
For some reason, everyone forgets about the Day's Break. This is the first imperfect creation of a pseudo-god, according to legend. What is striking is the slavish thinking of believers and the fear of obvious logic, from the recognition of which it would be freer and easier for people. But to do this, you need to destroy your cozy cell, and this is a rare courage.
Is Russell's teapot perfect if the tea in it is surely cold?
The problem is that if you believe in God, then you have an army of theologians and a wagonload of sophistry tools with which you can easily prove to yourself that either man is perfect, or the perfection of creation has nothing to do with the perfection of the creator. Does a question make sense if it can be answered in any way you want?
If you are an atheist, then the question is completely meaningless from the start.
«…man is only an intermediate link necessary for nature to create the crown of creation: a glass of cognac with a slice of lemon “- Monday begins on Saturday ” Boris and Arkady Strugatsky.
The ideal and its measure are concepts invented by man. God is a concept invented by man. Neither exists. But speaking of the Bible, God is quite bloodthirsty.
it's not evening yet)
Who told you that God stopped creating? It's just that the Creator has a very specific and well-thought-out creation technology. And then, after all, the first man was still perfect – after his creation, the Creator said-very well, he only had to keep the commandment and he would pass from the perfection of infancy to the perfection of maturity..But he disobeyed, was deceived, deceived.. However, this did not come as a shock to the Creator, because the Creator provided for such an option..This option, by the way, is not worse, but in some ways even better, because as the sages say, that the one who has tasted evil, but turned away from it, having overcome his pernicious attraction, will stand where even a perfect righteous person cannot stand. In other words, those who have returned to the faith have more spiritual power than those who have never sinned. Experimentia est optima rerum magistra � – Experience is the best teacher
“Sir, what is the secret of your success?” A reporter asked a successful businessman.
“Just two words!
“Which ones, sir?”
– Correct decisions.
— And how do you make the right decisions?
“One word.
— And what is that word?”
– Experience!
— And how do you get this experience?
“Two words.
“Which ones?”
– Wrong decisions…